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Ep. 4: Bobby Kircher — Founder & CEO of Papaya Search, on Understanding Your Clients, Partnerships, and Work-Life Balance & More.

Digital Agency Owners Podcast
Digital Agency Owners Podcast
Ep. 4: Bobby Kircher — Founder & CEO of Papaya Search, on Understanding Your Clients, Partnerships, and Work-Life Balance & More.

In this episode, Morayo welcomes Bobby Kircher, Founder, and CEO of Papaya Search. They talk about his experience in founding an SEO company, understanding your client’s struggles and how that can help you win the business, partnerships, work-life balance strategies, and much more.

Episode 4 with Bobby Kircher Founder & CEO at Papaya Research

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Read the transcript:

[00:00:02] Morayo: Welcome to GoWP’s Digital Agency Owners podcast I’m Morayo Orija I’m the director of creative services with GoWP And before I welcome today’s guests guest singular I would like to say a few words about GoWP in case anyone listening Isn’t already familiar with us in our WordPress services at GoWP our teams create happiness for digital agencies and help them become more profitable So whether you’re you join our incredibly valuable weekly happiness hour calls or if you’re looking for ways to grow your team with a developer copywriter designer or project manager. We’ve got you covered. We also offer services like case studies. Blogging website maintenance content edits and page bills that you can completely outsource to our team or white label as a new revenue source for your agency. To learn more about us at GoWP you can visit our social media [00:01:00] channels at @GoWPSupport on Twitter and GoWP everywhere else. So Facebook LinkedIn Instagram all that all that jazz. And there you can receive updates on what’s going on but without further ado it is my pure pleasure to welcome today’s guest Mr Bobby Kircher. Bobby is the founder of Papaya Search which is located in Atlanta Georgia where he has he and his team have over 15 years experience in the digital marketing field and Papaya Search focuses on SEO and other digital marketing strategies for their mini classes Welcome Welcome Welcome Bobby Kircher

[00:01:43] Bobby: Thanks Morayo good to see you. 

[00:01:45] Morayo: It’s

[00:01:46] Bobby: in a little box versus in-person 

[00:01:50] Morayo: nobody puts me in a box except Bobby Kircher I happily would go into the box.

[00:01:57] Morayo: It is truly [00:02:00] new I feel like we should do some mind work here to get out of this box. What a pleasure to have the chance to talk to you again and to share this space literally to share this space with you and to do discuss a lot of fun topics today, you know you are a man of many many skills and talents and abilities and I when I I’ve been with GoWP for almost a year. 

[00:02:27] Morayo: Exactly and you were one of the first agency owners that I had the pleasure of working with And so everything was so new to me and when for those of you that don’t know GoWP and Papaya Search collaborated on some case studies and I got to talk to many of your clients and that the thing that shocked me was how universally everyone loved you Not only working with you and the and the you know the benefit of working with Papaya Search team And the results that they were seeing but just [00:03:00] when your name came into the conversation it was genuine just love like literally love for you and working with you was just it was it was palpable you know And so as a new as a new member of the wordPress community I was like well how is this real How has how has this how how does somebody achieve that And you know so kudos to you and for you know being so appreciated by your clients. 

[00:03:27] Bobby: Thanks And I appreciated you pulling that out I mean like you know sometimes you don’t realize how you know your clients think of you and that’s like you know usually it’s just part of the it’s just part of the job for us like we’re just doing our thing Right And it was really nice too to hear the things that They were saying about us and about me and you know I it was kind of unexpected as we’ve gone through that process and you managed to pull some really valuable [00:04:00] information for them So you know very greatful that you did that and grateful to our clients I mean they’re they’re pretty awesome and we love working with them And and and glad to hear that the feeling’s mutual. 

[00:04:12] Morayo: Well I mean I think they would not have I have I have said those words about you if the results weren’t weren’t there So and that’s that you know this is perfect for the first question that I wanted to ask you and you really in a way already touched on it one of your clients I remember vividly him talking about the work they did with you. And he was very insistent on saying that Papaya Search is the partner of their organization. You are more than a service provider .And I think actually if we look back at the case study I think I included that quote it’s not it’s he he he pre had bad experiences before with other with with other service providers I won’t say service providers because he did not feel that they were truly his partner but he said it was [00:05:00] a change and a fresh breath of fresh air working with you how in your opinion though do you make a distinction in your mind of service provider versus a partner and how you approach the work that you do with your clients. 

[00:05:16] Bobby: Yeah it’s a good question because you know for some clients they just want to see us as a service provider and we have some clients like that that are just you know they’re just want us to do our thing and then that’s it but and and that’s okay Right but then there’s some other clients who. Like I think you might’ve been talking about Bob where they they’ve worked with another agency and basically they felt like they were judging be put through the motions as other as just yet another client. You know when we work with businesses it’s like each business is different and their needs are different and their audience are different And then people who work there are different you know good companies have a culture and a [00:06:00] vibe right.

[00:06:01] Bobby: And and so and so of we and you know I think it’s important to understand what the culture is So then you understand also what their customer is and and that’s how you really get to tailor something that works well for them is when you understand that the business and you understand the customer that they’re targeting and it and it applies to any .Form of marketing whether it’s digital social you know what have you that the more you can connect with your audience the more successful you can be in your efforts to to acquire, And you can keep the customer. 

[00:06:35] Morayo: That’s awesome to hear you say that And it’s I it’s interesting that you effectively apply that to any type of client that you have because the the ones who I interviewed ranged from you know the small nonprofit organization up to the multinational corporation and that’s what you just described how you customize the experience based on their individual needs That’s [00:07:00] exactly what they reflected It was interviews about the delivery of Papaya Search services That’s totally awesome Now the flip side of that though Bobby you know so your clients like you said some of them want strict service provider relationship with you Some of them appreciate more of that partner exchange but the flip side of that is in addition to yourself you know you have a team that is is the face of the of the company when you’re not there the day to day It does take an element of getting some continuity in your in your in Papaya Search value So how and from obviously you’re you’ve you figured out how to do that So for other small business owners you know new agency owners freelancers who are branching out what how how do they cultivate that same commitment from team members to deliver You know when you’re not there working neck shoulder to shoulder with them. [00:08:00] 

[00:08:00] Bobby: Yeah So you know in when I start when I onboard somebody to our team I like to explain you know just simply like how we were the types of customers that we have and our approach to work So you know w one of the most important things like I tell our our team members is that you know we always tried to find a way to make make any situation work if they’re having trouble because.

[00:08:29] Bobby: Our customer is leaning on us because we’re the experts right Even I don’t like using that word a little bit word expert but like they lean on us because they know that we we can find a solution or we can figure it out Right So even if we don’t know the answer to something I always like to show some confidence in what we do And that confidence comes out and say Hey w we don’t know this yet or know the answer but we’re going to find out and we’ll figure it out and get it back to you [00:09:00] So even if a lot of times we we we do know the solution to the problem but there are times when we don’t and just being honest and open and saying: Hey we don’t know the answer to this and then but we’ll go figure it out So it’s it’s giving them the confidence that we know what we’re doing and if we and we can figure it out no matter what and and also just treating our customers with with respect and and friendliness and and you know while still being professional.

[00:09:27] Bobby: And that’s not like my approach to work in general is like I’m serious about the work I do But I also don’t try not to take myself too seriously and so it’s like the trying to find a happy balance of the two is is like my approach to work And it’s it’s the same with our clients I mean like the base thing is psycho sound.

[00:09:47] Bobby: That’s the thing that we need to make sure that we’re trying to get it back up if that’s our job to support a website but a lot of the other things that we’re doing is not like applying protocol because we’re not you know it’s it’s [00:10:00] the it meaning we don’t have to be like express ourselves because it’s not we’re not saving lives We’re we are making sure businesses and the people who work there are surviving but we’re not you know we’re not performing surgery saving lives that kind of thing. 

[00:10:15] Morayo: But it’s there’s a level of authenticity that I I from speaking to your clients I know that they expressed they appreciate you know when you when you are diagnosing an issue maybe with their website and communicating with them like they Bobby’s word is his word and we can count on that And you you’ve mentioned the word confidence I also heard clients of yours express that level of confidence in you too And I think that’s invaluable to have to have someone partner with you and say I believe in you I have confidence in you and it’s it can easily be lost.

[00:10:49] Morayo: So if the systems and protocols aren’t in place and so I that’s something that you know looking at it at how you do business is something that I think [00:11:00] aspiring entrepreneurs can really take a lot of from and speaking of Aspiring entrepreneurs, You weren’t always the great Bobby Kircher of Papayas Search and fame You were a once upon a time a college student with you know the world of possibility before you so I know that after after college you started your career designing and coding. I’m pulling up your past man and we’re going we’re going deep We want to that you designed and coded for a Florida’s environmental protection agency I thought that was pretty cool. And one of the projects that you worked on you were coding for the Osprey permit website I I had to research the Osprey I’ve heard of it but I couldn’t picture what it looked like It’s just another type of Hawk. So What an experience I’m sure you know all this you’re like I know I learned a lot about Ospreys. Can you go what was that experience like fresh out of college getting your feet [00:12:00] wet what’s that like.

[00:12:01] Bobby: So I actually I started there as an intern so I it was a paid internship. So I it was yeah I know 

[00:12:10] Morayo: They don’t do that anymore. 

[00:12:12] Bobby: Those I know it was it was wild So it wasn’t I wasn’t slow I was actually at the library school which they had changed to information studies I was the name of the program and and so I had an opportunity to work as part of a group And we were designing this website called OC spray And my job was to basically design the UX and code code the front end on the site And then we had developers doing the vB I guess it was it might’ve been a VBS for active and active server agents And some of the older developers would know What that is It’s Microsoft scripting and technology for the web and and so my My proudest accomplishment from that job was I meticulously designed an image now that I sketch that I that I stenciled [00:13:00] of all the counties in Florida and if we did a plotted image map which you plotted by the pixel and for each county so each county was clickable to go to the page that was specific to that county for the permitting issues that they had So talk me a little bit about well tell me a lot about HTML because the worldwide web is only a few years old at that point It was 1997, 1998.

[00:13:24] Bobby: When I was there And so I learned a lot about web design HTML and and working with a team you know I kind of was living by myself but I realized that I actually had to interact with the developers in order to make something happen So that was really important even though I was off in my own little The corner of the office being able to interact with the team was very important to me so it was learned a lot of lessons then in my in my young years forever ago too

[00:13:52] Morayo: you you can’t tell at all you can’t tell it all that that’s very impressive though to accomplish that as an intern And I [00:14:00] remember those days well the late nineties I was I was right there with you on a college campus and what how did you How did you stumble How did you stumble into this I mean it was so new back then class a mentor How did you discover the world coding and information sciences?

[00:14:17] Morayo: Yeah! So like when 

[00:14:20] Bobby: I was in high school I mean he was actually growing up I wanted to have a Nintendo and my mother Said no you can’t have a Nintendo all your cousins have Nintendos and all they do is do this and which you know I was like boo but so we ended up with a computer instead And so we were we had like he see that the operating system on a floppy desk you know so we used to we had two bays for floppies one to run the operating system and then one to just run programs And I started voting At a pretty young [00:15:00] age just doing simple basic stuff you know just for fun just to see what I can do with the computer So it would be things to like you know flash tags or maybe texts like load up on fill up the page And then eventually I got him pascal and I thought I would get into computer science but it just wasn’t really my thing But we were like we were the first people in our family to get connected to the internet you know and I was on I think we had AOL at first and this was before the world wide web was available and I was going to newsgroups and And using volt for defining information about things A lot of it was music related and looking for FAQ documents for lighting bands that I loved electronic bands And so that’s that was my you know Dell you know first dive into it’s to the internet And then eventually it was like okay so how do I make a career of this and at first I thought I was going to get into like hotel management because I was really into hotels and then realized it was a it was a lot of work to do that.

[00:15:55] Bobby: And I would rather I don’t know I felt like I’d rather be on the computer and playing around with that So [00:16:00] that’s how my career started.

[00:16:02] Morayo: It was just you know did your mother you said that you your mother did not want you to be just like your cousins you know spending time playing Nintendo games, Did she recognize that there was a possibility in a career opportunity in in your you know fiddling around around with the computers?

[00:16:19] Bobby: Yeah I mean maybe but you know my mom today still doesn’t know what I do So don’t know I that’s a good question I should probably ask her that but I think it was just one of those things where it was like well everyone has or maybe their pool people have one and then she felt like we needed one in the house I’m not sure but I probably out of the family I was the one that was on it the most So… 

[00:16:47] Morayo: one thing that I love that we share in common we both have parents who are not we’re not born in the US and they have a very different outlook on life and career and hobbies and interests and pursuits [00:17:00] my my father my mother is American born but my father is Nigerian And your mother was born in Cuba your father is US born though correct? Or he’s also? 

[00:17:08] Bobby: Yeah 

[00:17:09] Morayo: Okay So we were very similar So this is why we’re so one of the though one of the things one of the one of the Character traits I think of having growing up in the US with a parent born outside of the US is they instill the idea of practical choices for their children’s and their career paths did 

[00:17:33] Bobby: Yeah 

[00:17:34] Morayo: when you you know so we you said your mom wouldn’t let you waste time on Nintendo but having a mother from a different cultural background how do you think if at all has that impacted the way you make decisions now and set goals as a as a small business owner I hope mom listening. 

[00:17:55] Bobby: You know there has to be fear of it certainly for in [00:18:00] my mom’s case I’m leaving I’m leaving a during the cold war maybe a communist dispensary and having everything that you own taken away from you, There’s always this fear of there’s there’s like a scarcity mindset that kind of carries with me still And I have to be mindful of that because in some ways it’s a good thing because You know you’re concerned about profitability and making sure you’re you have enough to carry you along even through the lean months but then you’re also like at least in my case sometimes fearful of taking taking risks which seems odd for an entrepreneur to have a fear of taking risks but there were times when I was just like you know I don’t want to get myself into a situation where you know I’m going to have to be a But sorry for for for jobs And so [00:19:00] that is a mindset that my mother you know she came here with nothing I mean our entire family came here with only what they could carry in their hands and how to leave everything behind So and starting from scratch.

[00:19:15] Bobby: So there’s also a sense of scrappiness that comes with that too where it’s like okay well I’m here with nothing The only place I can go is up And so you know taking you do take some risks in the beginning because you really don’t have any choice Right so and and and you’re willing to take jobs that may not be the best job I mean like my grandfather owned a a store like a general store in Cuba and then she came to the us and he was working as a janitor at the school down the street and then working for my father’s father which is how my parents met so you know they worked really hard to just get themselves in a comfortable place where they can support their families and and [00:20:00] my mom would say too you know so yeah there’s there’s a little bit of the scrappiness the entrepreneurial spirit that is taking risks and in the fear of taking risks well…

[00:20:10] Morayo: I I hope after this recording today that you call your mom and just say mom thanks thanks for snatching that Nintendo out of my hand and getting me to where I am today.

[00:20:21] Bobby: That’s a good idea I heard things around the corner so I shouldn’t do that when I when I call her on her birthday and she would totally love that. 

[00:20:28] Morayo: You know and you know what your mom would love me for saying that to you And I just I feel certain she is I’m taking care of I’m taking care of your of your Mijo mama so who I love that story I love that story And I think that it’s a tale that many people can relate to and I know ’cause you’re you’re such a knowing you that you’re such a man of character And again I I can’t say enough so many authentically people other people who have never sat in the same room with feel the same way about you So it’s so real who I’m curious about who else you have [00:21:00] encountered along your life’s journey who’s helped shaped who you are today one of my favorite quotes that I always share is one from one of my favorite writers and poets is Maya Angelo And she says that you know “people will forget what you said but they’ll never forget how you made them feel” And so my curiosity into your your personal development that fed who you are as an entrepreneur who else along the way like impacted you in such a way that you have never forget forgotten how they made you feel I know your mom for sure but who else. 

[00:21:36] Bobby: Yeah so I have an aunt who she she’s my dad’s sister And when I was I must have been 15 or 16 I think I had just gotten my car and she had just started her own business consulting And she was working at a firm for a long time and then she decided to go out on our own and she was I want to [00:22:00] say probably in her thirties or late thirties So and And I remember going out to dinner like a bunch of us in the family went out to dinner And I wonder if it was my mom who told me to ask my auntie because I was at I was wondering if she needed help at her office And so so I asked her at dinner and she said yes you can come by and start you know at school by and start working And so I basically winter house and with would and would just like make photocopies and staple things and and you know organize files for her because you know things were used we still use paper then you know and she was using WordPerfect if you even remember that that was like the word processing that lawyers use for years background Right And the white text Right So and actually even typed some things up on there too So it was like my first taste of working for for somebody who is [00:23:00] part of that entrepreneurial mindset and and just fucking with her things even some family stuff that was going on where I was like why do I feel this way And she was related to me Like I she made me feel like I wasn’t alone in feeling the way that I was feeling about things in life So I got with her I got a taste of she she trusted me to do a good job I got to see her just pursue her dream and and she acknowledged some things that I was feeling even at that age when I didn’t really get that from a lot of other people in my in my life so I admire her And she she still has her business and is very successful And it’s amazing to see how much she has grown over the past 20 years and you know we still have a great relationship today, So yeah she’s definitely somebody that that I admire and and was was it the person who like her [00:24:00] her me out you know well after she still hears me when I talked to her about business so yeah that’s great. 

[00:24:07] Morayo: After you call your mom I want you to call your aunt to either think her too for all that she did to shape you. 

[00:24:15] Bobby: Sure I do all my like… 

[00:24:18] Morayo: Oh then I’m going to call you in 48 hours and say did you call those two wonderful women who made you the man that you are today I will keep you accountable. 

[00:24:27] Bobby: You can give me on my toes. 

[00:24:29] Morayo: Most certainly am actually full disclosure Bobby ,They sent me here to tell them to tell you all this they wrote these questions I didn’t write these questions They said yeah tell him They said compared me to Maya Angelo and led Bobby run with it I was like okay Okay. 

[00:24:42] Bobby: This was a set up. 

[00:24:43] Morayo: It is always set up I I you know I would like to ask you an unplanned question just based on your experience with your aunt I’m you know you Papaya Search has been you started Papaya search about 15 years ago? No [00:25:00] 2004 Okay so that’s like 17 years ago I wasn’t even a math major and listen look at me I’m very curious you were talking about scrappy, Yeah You were a very astute young entrepreneur making yourself useful to your aunt and her and her business I’m really curious How did you get your first Papaya Search client. 

[00:25:24] Bobby: Okay So I I was working at NCR world column and I knew somebody who had an e-commerce company and we had you know we were we were we were we had always talked about like maybe one day I would come in and help them because when I was when I was at NCI rom-com and if you remember they were the long distance company when we used to buy the long distance for their phone I was a web developer there And so I actually was on the instead of doing the front end I was on the back end side but we were building websites internally So it was once I said it never saw the light of day outside [00:26:00] of the the the the company’s intranet So he had an e-commerce site that sold Almadi footwear and and I got laid off and he got hit with with a It was the Florida update This was in 2003 And so they were still trying to recover in 2004 By the time I was like let it go, He was still trying to recover And I had been talking to him about it And so I was looking for other jobs and at that point I was already building some websites and doing some SEO with some clients on the side And so he said to me that former company will hire you You come in and you’ll help us And so they were like my first elephant client And I worked with them with him for two years and we helped as a team I’ve worked with their team to help them recover they’re ranking we made some enhancements to The website itself to help improve the shopping cart [00:27:00] experience I also optimize their Amazon listings so they were one of the first third party sellers on Amazon And this was before Prime, mind you, And God has misses in such a position where he was able to sell it within two years And the newer company had us on onboard after that so I was basically they were my elephant client And then I had a bunch of affiliate websites that I maintained that did a lot of Amazon business and some other third party So I was like at an affiliate marketer with one big e-commerce client And so that’s how that got That’s how we got started originally Yeah. 

[00:27:38] Morayo: Days the reference to early Amazon that threw me for a loop I was like whoa what Like. 

[00:27:44] Bobby: Yeah I know Right It’s like there was a time when there was a time when Amazon like you there was no crying right But the one thing that I figured out and I don’t mind revealing the secret because it doesn’t work anymore But the [00:28:00] so a lot of the third party sellers had their own pages for the same products And this is before amazon use UBC to put products together And so I used a word that we match the Amazon product in our feed to the Amazon feed or the Amazon products We wouldn’t be listed as a alternative alternate product buy or an option seller But then when Amazon ran out of inventory then we would win the buy box and so that’s how they were able to make a killing on Amazon when everyone else was had their products weren’t getting found And it was because the Amazon listing for the products always was high up in the SERPS and a Google search So that’s how we ended up winning the buy box for a lot of their products because Amazon will run on inventory, our client would appear in the buy box and it was the page that got the [00:29:00] most traffic for that specific product. 

[00:29:02] Morayo: That was so innovative but that was what it was so innovative for back then 

[00:29:05] Bobby: Was. 

[00:29:06] Morayo: That’s like it’s it reminds me of a day when when you wanted Netflix they would mail you a DVD to watch and then you would mail it back Like that’s. 

[00:29:13] Bobby: I remember I remember getting yeah.

[00:29:19] Morayo: Was all around us and look where everyone is now you Amazon prime and Netflix everyone has evolved that’s one truism of life now talking about that’s a great story that segues into the next topic I wanted to touch on was the essence of what you do with your clients which is making them this is my lay woman’s definition of what you do You help make make companies more discoverable online by having you know smart digital marketing strategies really focusing on SEO and I’m trying to think of some of the I was trying to remember some of the wonderful results that that you achieve for the clients that I [00:30:00] interviewed a lot of analysis of what’s working on their sites things like that but you’ve since you’ve been in the business for so long, What challenges or missed opportunity opportunities Do you commonly see businesses making on their sites That’s limiting them and maybe even before they arrive at your doorstep so to speak what you know you’ve been around long enough to say okay I’ve seen this before I know what to do but what are the biggest problems and challenges for companies today. 

[00:30:30] Bobby: Yeah So a lot of it has to do with execution whereas you know sometimes Companies don’t have the full full team to in their marketing departments to execute on on some of the initiatives that would be good for the for the company And so a lot of times that’s where we come in is when you know there’s a marketing team who knows for our marketing team member who knows that they really could do a lot better in Google or in in Google search whether that’s they’re seeing the rankings or maybe they’re writing or maybe their [00:31:00] pages are coming up for search terms May not be their target customer so then we come in and help them work on some of the technical issues that could be impacting their the rankings A lot of times it’s it’s all about content And so it’s either organizing with mom’s hand or coming up with a strategy to find a spree onsite to finding their their customer their potential customer And we do that through keyword research and and and looking at their competitors and seeing what kinds of keywords they’re ranking for And we’ll find some content that we’re producing And then also looking at those pages and determining okay when they come to the site what do we want them to do Or when they come to that Hey what do we want them to do Do you know are they filling out a lead form Are they buying something or retain them to another part of the site or what are the other efforts The other marketing efforts that are happening right.

[00:31:52] Bobby: We don’t do social media so much by you know there’s there there are going to be opportunities to tie in visitors to a certain page [00:32:00] and retarget them with ads through their social media.

[00:32:03] Bobby: So and then looking at analytics and and and figuring all that out right Like making sure there are any analytics is looks good and and we’re able to grab information and and and and use that information to make further optimizations So I feel like that’s where a lot of the missed opportunity is is like on execution and having the having the right people to to do the things that should be done. 

[00:32:29] Morayo: Having the right people like Papaya Search the experts be the confident authentic experts at supply a service I’m just gathering up all of the accolades I’ve heard of you Okay. 

[00:32:41] Bobby: Or or like the GoWP like you know we work we work with GoWP on on a number of things and you know you don’t find the right people and it makes it easy for us to just bring somebody in and and work start working right away Like with case studies I mean [00:33:00] we have these wonderful these days because of because of you so yeah. 

[00:33:05] Morayo: And if I can call back to some of our earlier conversation I can truly say it’s been a pleasure being your partner not a service provider And even beyond like I know you’ve got one of the developers are on your team but just the case studies too It’s that was truly again one of my first GoWP assignments and having you as a partner was awesome And so. 

[00:33:26] Morayo: I’m glad that you treated me like a partner not just a service provider one of the things too that I really appreciate getting to know you and seeing how you conduct yourself as a business owner is visibility goes beyond company’s website and this is my own diagnosis I think success for an agency also includes the visibility of the agency owner him or herself how necessary do you think networking is for small businesses. 

[00:33:55] Bobby: I I think it’s very important you know like [00:34:00] back in the day when I had my my elephant client and my affiliate websites I didn’t have to network you know or at least I felt like I didn’t have to network Right and then eventually The elephant client got smaller and smaller and smaller and it wasn’t so elephant and my affiliate income with smaller and smaller and it wasn’t I was like oh wow Okay I guess I need to put myself out there because nobody was coming in Right I I hadn’t worked on my own site I had really participated in the world around me I was I was not involved in the SEO community as a as a whole is of Twitter but and because of the forums but I still was under the radar like I said pretty promising but it wasn’t until I started networking and getting to know people and be willing to share knowledge and information with others and with my peers that things started to [00:35:00] change for for my business. 

[00:35:02] Bobby: And you know and then I was this may surprise you but I was pretty shy and And pretty reserved and I didn’t want to put myself out there I was a little afraid to do that but I soon realized after getting out there and meet new people and a little improv class I actually was realized that I’m not alone in this and being around other like-minded people being around other entrepreneurs you know it is helped me just be more part of the community especially in the WordPress community where community is so big it’s it it has definitely it’s changed my business And not only I mean because I’ve amended referral partners that way and a lot of our business still comes from referrals and so a lot of our referral partners come from the networking that I that I’ve done but I’ve also been able to give back because not every play that comes our way or a potential hire every lead I should say every leader that comes our way is the [00:36:00] right fit for us But I knew I usually know somebody who they might be the right fit for you know and I love being able to give that back and you know doesn’t always work out Right but just because the opportunity just gets to get spread around all around, So and that that lead also appreciates it too you find it a home for them even if it’s not you you know so it is definitely important Plus you can talk learn like all of the things that are troubling the business I’ve learned so much from my peers about how best to deal with clients how to just be be better at business better salesperson and better a better I mean it’s it’s it’s it’s so important. 

[00:36:46] Morayo: And and your approach to this is the perfect anecdote for that scarcity fear we talked about earlier you know I’ve I’ve personally witnessed you be a dynamic contributor in on the [00:37:00] weekly happiness hour calls and and and it it is amazing how willing all of you agency owners are to you know share your experiences that will help another agency owner And there’s no no fear of that to keep this to myself And I don’t want you know it’s I don’t want to let this competitive advantage go And and that’s and it again it it all comes back I heard one of the things that I heard spoken about you was you know he so someone speaking about one of your presentations at a word camp which is why I find it so funny And how how much you you were previously reserved until you stepped outside of the box and took improv classes to give you more public speaking confidence because it paid off for your business. 

[00:37:45] Bobby: Absolutely. 

[00:37:46] Morayo: The comments that I heard was you know he was such he Bobby Kircher was such a dynamic presenter and so knowledgeable at word camp that I knew this is who I was going to work with And you know it’s and I love what you said that when you even [00:38:00] if working with a business is not right at that moment you still make that connection It may be time to germinate but it will come back You know even if it’s the goodwill. 

[00:38:12] Bobby: Yeah how did he get a good will or even just like that person will be like well you know then they’ll say you know Bobby helped me this time and maybe he knows somebody who can help me with this and that happens so often and I you know I I love I just love helping people So that’s like one of the big things that I I enjoy doing is is just helping people out So yeah. 

[00:38:35] Morayo: See Bobby That’s why everyone says you’re the expert It says why you know you you’ve dug your own You’ve dug yourself in and did that title 

[00:38:45] Bobby: to I dug my own hole. 

[00:38:45] Morayo: I wanted to ask you there’s so many questions I want to ask you we’ll have to do this again cause I I could I could really honestly talk to you for hours and. 

[00:38:53] Bobby: I know we what we did actually we did we sat there ended up better breakfast and we’re almost going into lunch [00:39:00] Just talk to your mom every day. 

[00:39:02] Morayo: I know for you unlucky listeners or viewers who don’t know Bobby So Bobby is based in in Atlanta Georgia I’m in Chicago and he was in town almost a month ago Now I think it was. 

[00:39:15] Bobby: Yeah it was a month ago Yeah. 

[00:39:16] Morayo: And I know that you’re a fan of the city I think you expressed So what is it that you love I’m I just moved here a couple of years ago but what is it that you love so much about it and what keeps you coming back.

[00:39:30] Bobby: It’s a it’s a great city It’s a beautiful city everyone is so friendly It’s like God you know it’s one of the biggest cities in the country and everybody’s friendly Like now people are just like pushing everyone around you know and it’s nice that the weather is nice in the summer.

[00:39:48] Morayo: I like it when it’s chilly too but yeah. 

[00:39:50] Bobby: I know we thought we talked about the and I love like one of my favorite things to do is to go to the art Institute every time Like I always go and I always go look at it And I [00:40:00] hos I go to the the modern way And always and yeah it’s like one of my favorite things to do is to go to the art institute and and to eat like food is so good there god and yeah. 

[00:40:14] Morayo: There are so many positive things to say about the city I will say that it’s yes Beautiful and then you have the cultural offerings that you mentioned as well as well as the culinary offers And you know you you’ve already demonstrated that you are an amazing chef We learned about your breastless frown So this is your kind of town you know it’s well the funny thing though I think you know we are about what a year and a half into the pandemic and that just never never seems to end It keeps evolving I’ve seen I’m not going to go into quote a number because I’ve seen conflicting reports on the impact of the pandemic and stay at home orders on businesses and employees returning or not returning to the office space the demand for more remote work which for us I’ve been I’ve even before GoWP I was working remotely as a as a nonprofit grant writer So it’s sort of [00:41:00] par for the course for me but I mean do you have any forecasts on the changes that are coming well I guess this is kind of a two part question do you have any forecast of what you expect of how how the workplace will continue to shift and evolve how that might impact agencies like Papaya Search and other digital marketing agencies and if not so much directly with the work that’s being delivered but how you interact with your clients So you’re not they might not want to have that one-on-one in office ex exchange as frequently How what do you what do you predict. 

[00:41:35] Bobby: I don’t you know it’s maybe I’ll answer with I don’t where we’ll go back to right at the start at an endemic when I was in the process of hiring a full-time SEO and I just specifically look for somebody in Atlanta and I wanted that person to work in the this is when I’ve had a I had a largely [00:42:00] space And and so I hired him He was like you know he asked me he was pretty ready to start over Cause he was like though from his his from his job he was a video editor and he wanted to change careers And so I interviewed him hired him and I said I would bring him on hoard after I went to work at Miami So I didn’t want to hire him and work remotely I wanted us to work in the office together and work here in Miami was the first weekend of March, 2020 And I was seeing there for two weeks because I’m from Miami and I have family down there So I was going to extend the trip Right and and have some meetings while I was down there and do all kinds of stuff Right But family And of course in those first two weeks of March Everything changed.

[00:42:41] Bobby: And and I fly back on the 16th or I think it was the 16th I fly back on Rolando was as far as was supposed to start on a Tuesday and he was going to come into the office and we did not spend a single day in the office the whole time we worked together [00:43:00] And sadly he’s he went off to another agency but you know you learned a lot while he was working for for reading but we met I think in person three times And so we learned a lot I learned and everything he did to how important it is to work remotely and communicate And and so like it was a little bit of a learning curve at first because it wasn’t what I had planned but it was fine We did a lot of Great work together and I was able to manage him pretty Well and he tells me as much And because I asked him for feedback and before he left I was like what the work dynamic was like And you know we just leaned in slack listening to zoom We leaned into we tried Google meet for awhile zoom was we found zoom to be working better for us.

[00:43:53] Bobby: We use notion to manage our projects And so when we did a lot of just communicating online and just making sure that we [00:44:00] did communicate like we just sometimes in a way we all were communicated at at first until you know he was initially just working for me for the first time Right So we had to do all this virtually And so But anyway we were fine you know And I think it’s hard to go back to to that especially when you think about in a city like Atlanta where a lot of it’s it’s a big falling city in all directions and sometimes it means can take an hour And so when you’re so used to taking less than an hour to commute or eat or not or not spending two hours in the car community you know those are two hours that you can spend with your family Those are the two hours you can focus on something that that it makes you feel good instead of sitting in a car and feeling miserable for for for long periods of time And so I it’s hard to go back to that So I think businesses are [00:45:00] just going to have to be much more dynamic for us in the digital space I mean I think we we we had Morayo of a prelude to that pandemic A lot of us were working remotely already So I think I don’t think there’s a way to go back to that I mean I could see the importance of mixing a little bit I think it’s probably going to be more of a hybrid model because I’m not working from home Right I changed my office but I am in a cohort needs space with my own dedicated space besides want to be around people So I am still balancing a little bit of the two besides I didn’t want to have a desired environment from outside or my home to be in but for other people especially families with you know I’m single so it’s a little different for me than if I had children I probably would want to people more often So. 

[00:45:56] Morayo: Well it’s it’s there’s still so much apprehension and [00:46:00] nervousness in society but I think again another callback to what you were saying earlier in our call about what you learned from your mother you know no matter what it can only get better you know things will get better we’ll we’ll find a new I know people don’t like the term new normal but we’ll find a new comfortable space in which to operate we will evolve and we will survive So. 

[00:46:23] Morayo: My final question for you today because GoWP we are focused and concentrated on creating happiness for our partners to help them grow I want to know the listeners and viewers are dying to know how does Bobby curvature create happiness in his life at this current moment Or what what entities experiences are creating happiness for you 

[00:46:47] Bobby: Yeah so you know I’ve this this year I at least been able to feel more comfortable about getting getting it together I got vaccinated so I I feel a little I have a [00:47:00] layer of protection so I’d been traveling more and visiting with friends Like I was in Chicago for a friend’s 50th birthday you know that’s why I was up there and and just reconnecting with people you know to my earlier point I mean like I I like to being around people even though I’m an introvert and my batteries do run low I do like being around people I was that our three weeks ago and you know the recurring revenue retreat and it was really nice to see some old friends that I hadn’t seen in awhile and like two years And so it was really nice to reconnect and you know like I have a morning routine that I stayed away sorta helps me feel like a human I meditate journal and exercise It’s like my three things that I do every morning and have a cup of coffee like I guess for but you know to sort of like not look at work for a second you know kind of just get myself into Into the routine with offline just sitting in my computer because I have all day to [00:48:00] sit at my computer you know that that brings me brings me some joy in getting back into running again has also brought me some joy and I’ve got a running solid that I run with on Saturdays And that’s that’s been nice too so yeah. 

[00:48:16] Morayo: I think that is the perfect recipe for how to be effective and be loved by clients because that’s that’s your routine and it’s working for you And again I can’t reiterate enough how much how much you are love 

[00:48:31] Morayo: Gosh darn it People love you because you’re good enough and smart enough And yes you yes You Bobby Kircher.

[00:48:40] Bobby: Like Mississippi saying “moi”. 

[00:48:43] Morayo: Well I that was that’s a that’s a sensitive spot for me because Kermit the frog was like my first crush in life and I could not stand that pig Miss piggy I wanted to I mean I was like five years old now. 

[00:48:52] Bobby: Really Oh I’m sorry 

[00:48:54] Morayo: Oh yeah it’s okay It’s a soft spot but that’s okay I’m not triggered I’m not triggered I’m working through my feelings against miss [00:49:00] piggy but no what a wonderful conversation wonderful time with you but I expect nothing less. 

[00:49:05] Bobby: Thank you, Morayo. 

[00:49:06] Morayo: Thank you for being a new presence thank you Thank you, Thank you so much And we have to have you 

[00:49:09] Morayo: back on so many more things to talk about but do we could we can we should so for you All that are watching or listening to this again I want to thank you for listening to this podcast And just as a quick reminder at GoWP we want to help you become more profitable whether it’s by listening to podcasts like this and laughing with me and Bobby calls go to Facebook and find us there and and request membership there you can view informative webinars hosted by our friends in the WordPress community And of course by growing your team with our Uber skilled developers copywriters diviners diviners diviners to designers and project managers So go to gowp.com three more about our services and schedule a call Thank you all so much for listening Thank you Bobby Kircher. 

[00:49:58] Bobby: Thanks everybody.

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