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Ep. 7 — Joe Casabona, Host of How I Built It Podcast & Founder of Podcast Liftoff on the Value of Community, Teaching, Walt Disney, and More.

Digital Agency Owners Podcast
Digital Agency Owners Podcast
Ep. 7 — Joe Casabona, Host of How I Built It Podcast & Founder of Podcast Liftoff on the Value of Community, Teaching, Walt Disney, and More.

On our latest episode of the GoWP Digital Agency Owners Podcast we welcome Joe Casabona! Host of the Podcast “How I Built It” and Founder of Podcast Liftoff. We talk about the value of finding community, being a teacher and having empathy for your students, the importance of content and how business owners can learn from Walt Disney, and much more!

Read the transcript:

[00:00:00] Morayo: Welcome to GoWP Digital Agency Owners Podcast. I’m Morayo director of creative services.

[00:00:10] Joanne: And I’m Joanne, I am marketing manager. And before we welcome our guests, I would like to say a few words about GoWP in case anyone listening is new. Here is a familiar with us and our WordPress services. I just want to get this out of the way really, really quick. So at GoWP our teams, create happiness for digital agencies, and we help them become more profitable, whether. It’s joining in our incredibly valuable weekly calls our happiness, our calls, or if you’re looking for ways to grow your team with a dedicated developer, a copywriter, a designer, we got you covered. We also offer services. like case studies, blogging, website maintenance, content edits, and page builds.

[00:00:57] Joanne: Then you can completely outsource to our team or white [00:01:00] label them as a new revenue source for your agency.

[00:01:04] Morayo: Well, Joanne, why don’t you tell the people how, if they are interested agency owners and solopreneurs, how they can find out more about GoWP.

[00:01:13] Joanne: Yeah, for sure. So you can find anything you need from us on GoWP.com or our social media, social media channels. So on Twitter, we’re @GoWPSupport and GoWP everywhere else. So LinkedIn, Facebook, Instagram get updates what’s going on with our weekly happiness hours.

[00:01:32] Morayo: Ah, yes, I’m really excited, truly excited to welcome and chat with our guest today because he’s so fun and he’s knowledgeable and he’s so approachable. The man to whom I’m referring is none other than Mr. Joe Good house Casabona will explain the good house in a moment. He’s one of the, he’s the host of podcasts, like how I built it, ship your podcast, WP review for WordPress review and other shows.

[00:01:58] Morayo: He is also a college [00:02:00] instructor and the creator of creator courses. This is a series of courses that instruct small business owners and freelancers, the skills and routes to creating and monetizing their content building online courses, and even creating websites without code all very valuable tools.

[00:02:18] Morayo: Welcome Joe

[00:02:20] Joanne: Welcome, Joe.

[00:02:22] Morayo: How are you?

[00:02:23] Joe: Thank you both very much for that great introduction. I am doing very well. I’m happy to be here to chat. This is nice. Cause usually we’re in a group call with like a dozen or so other people. So this is some nice to have some one-on-one on one time.

[00:02:40] Joanne: Yeah. Yeah. It’s like a conference call

[00:02:43] Morayo: Right, right.

[00:02:44] Joanne: those, like, hold on, let me get the other person in The line

[00:02:47] Joe: Yeah.

[00:02:48] Morayo: line. thank you. Thank you for accepting our invitation on that happiness hour call, I slid into your DMS as the kids say, and maybe [00:03:00] maybe invitation to come on. I mean, you were, you were, you were kind and not freaked out by me, sliding into said DM and and accepting the

[00:03:08] Joanne: Well, he was, he was putting eyes on the chat. I remember that. Cause we were talking about the podcasts and he was like, wait, what? What’s what’s going on? So I

[00:03:15] Joe: That’s true. You mentioned looking for guests and I was like, I did, I liked the eyes emoji, right? When I’m looking, I’m like, I see that I’m

[00:03:22] Joanne: I see

[00:03:23] Morayo: I see

[00:03:24] Joe: I won’t invite myself on to anybody’s podcasts, but I’m happy to be invited. I tell people I am happy to be your first guest. Because I know getting that first guest could be hard and most people are going to be nervous for their first podcast episode.

[00:03:38] Joe: And I, I want to help people make it as easy as possible for them.

[00:03:43] Morayo: Well,

[00:03:43] Joanne: So, yeah, I heard it first here, Joe Casabona is open to be the first guest in your podcast. So if you’re starting a podcast after you learn how to start a podcast with this course, get him on the podcast.

[00:03:56] Joe: Yes, absolutely.

[00:03:58] Morayo: Once one stop shop here. [00:04:00] See, it’s all about getting you on everyone’s podcast for diverse

[00:04:03] Joanne: The

[00:04:03] Morayo: And

[00:04:04] Joe: Love it.

[00:04:04] Joanne: The Machine just keeps on going.

[00:04:07] Morayo: so, you know for anyone listening or watching on YouTube. I think I speak for both Joanne and myself. We are not faking the joy like you are, you know, we’ve had wonderful guests. Of course everyone we invite, no one, we don’t invite anyone. Who’s not wonderful, but you are especially just, you know, just a great guy, great.

[00:04:25] Morayo: And a great podcast or in your own. Right. I feel like, you know, we should be bowing down to you, but yeah, we’re both happy to have you here, Joe. One of the first things I wanted to talk about today is not even really a question at all. It’s something that you brought up on one of our weekly happiness, happiness hour calls.

[00:04:41] Morayo: Your name is a beautiful name, Joe Casabona Casabona. You are of Italian descent. And tell us, tell the listeners what Casabona translates.

[00:04:50] Joe: Yes. Casabona translates from Italian into good house. And yeah, I am of Italian descent on both sides. So I am 100% Italian American [00:05:00] which is something I feel like fewer people can say, right. They’re like 100% of a certain descent. I always said that I would marry an Italian girl to keep that going.

[00:05:09] Joe: And I married an Irish girl because she’s wonderful. And you know, now I can say my kids are like Frank Sinatra because he was like half Italian, half Irish, but yeah. Casabona translates into good house and everywhere. So anytime I go into like another Italian establishment and I introduce myself, they’ll always give me like that knowing, look, there’ll be like, Casabona good house.

[00:05:31] Joe: Right. And they would do it to me in Italy, too. We honeymooned in Italy and they would ask me, oh, like a “Speak italiano”?. Right. Which do you understand Italian? And I would say lake a piece YOKA Pisco in bowl Italiana and then it would be very disappointed that I don’t speak that I’m not fluent in Italian.

[00:05:48] Joe: We’re very, we’re very proud people. So yeah, but that’s, it’s a, it’s a great tidbit. I really liked that because no good house is a nice thing to have.

[00:05:57] Morayo: I mean, it’s a nice tradition to pass [00:06:00] along the family line and to continue. And I, I totally feel you. My linen lineage, my father is Nigerian of the year of Ethnicity, the Europa tribe. And my mother is African-American so a lot of different, a lot of different mixes in there. And then my great, great grandmother was German.

[00:06:16] Morayo: Can you tell from my hair color? But but yeah, no, it’s I love, I love meaning not that every culture doesn’t have meanings in the names, but like originally my last name and Europa, it means loosely translated it’s the head is stronger than any problem. And so I don’t, I don’t tend to get too overwhelmed and like, well, if the two shots I know shock

[00:06:38] Joanne: I love

[00:06:39] Joe: cool. We’re talking about my last name. Your last name is so much cooler. That’s like a, that’s like a, a word that’s words to live by. That’s

[00:06:46] Morayo: at, it’s a heavy burden actually, because whenever I do feel like, oh man, I got a lot going on. I feel like my great, great, great, great grandfather looking down at me. What is your name? Your name is,

[00:06:59] Joanne: my God.

[00:06:59] Morayo: [00:07:00] and I’m like you’re right. You’re right. Great, great, great grandfather to the third power. You’re right. I’m stronger than any problem facing me. No, but I think it’s, I think it’s really beautiful. And you know, again, I mean, good house, you have a lot to live up to as well.

[00:07:13] Joe: I do I do. That’s like, and like, like my Joseph depending on the language translates into a bunch of things, you can channel it into like warrior or enlightened. So I’m like, great. I’m like enlightened warrior of a good house. That’s like a lot of pressure. I

[00:07:29] Morayo: A lot of pressure,

[00:07:30] Joe: Yeah.

[00:07:31] Morayo: but you know, the names matter. In fact, speaking of names just a few weeks ago, this podcast was called niche agency, owner podcast, and we are now digital agency owner names matter. I mean, names

[00:07:42] Joe: Yeah, absolutely.

[00:07:43] Joanne: I’m not even going to go into my last name. It’s Torres means towers. And it’s usually an opening for like people who see me in person they’re like Torres. Cause you were tall ha ha ha.,

[00:07:53] Morayo: I love the way you said it though. One of the way you said it though.

[00:07:57] Joanne: yeah, I roll my R’s kind of Dominican. I [00:08:00] must nod. They’re like what happened to you? You moved to the states and now who are you? But like speaking of language and heritage heritage, heritage you’re someone called you that you were born a teacher. Are you teaching your kids? Italian, so they don’t get flustered when they go to Italy and hopefully and ask for I don’t know, Caccio e Pepe in the wrong way.

[00:08:26] Joe: I’ve been, you know, I’ve been trying, I’ve been teaching my daughter, the Italian words that I know. And then I’ve been, I’ve been doing babble to try to learn it’s time myself. I have tried to do this with each child. Right. Because I read that the language center is, is developing the best between like I think 4 and 10 months. And so, yeah, which is wild. Right. And so as like, if I speak enough Italian, while my, you know, before my baby turns a year, then they’ll be able to pick it up [00:09:00] more quickly. Of course. They can still pick up language pretty quickly up until I think it’s like like 10 or something like that. So I still have like six years, but clock reset on that.

[00:09:10] Joanne: But like speaking of teachers and teaching your kids, you teach college courses. So you’re the host of instructional podcasts. And also you have LinkedIn courses. Can you talk a little bit about your love or your knack for teaching and how it originated and what your goal is to teach your students and for creating programs?

[00:09:32] Joanne: This is a, of like three questions in one.

[00:09:34] Joe: All right. All right. Well, I will say I was not always good at teaching. I, the, the first teaching experience I remember was showing my mom how to use a computer. And I was like, just right click. And she was like, what? She, so she moved her cursor to the right side of the screen and clicked. And I was like, no, no, no right click.

[00:09:56] Joe: And she’s like, I don’t know what that is. And I’m like, just right click, which is [00:10:00] not shouting. The same words at people is not very effective as a teaching strategy. But I got better because I was, I. Free a freelance web developer from the time I was 14. And so throughout, yeah, it was very like I like to say it was divine intervention because my church was like, we need a website.

[00:10:19] Joe: Can you make one? And I was like, nah. And they were like, we’ll pay you. And I was like, yeah. So that was my first, my first gig was a paid gig. But I continued to do that cause it was so fun. It was like, it was like, I got to flex my, my creative side and my logical side and it was, I loved it. And so I kept doing it.

[00:10:37] Joe: And as I was training people, right, because we moved from in the early two thousands, just like kind of static pages to content management sites where the client can update their own site. And so I would train the clients and for a long time, my clients would sit down with me and say, I’m really sorry.

[00:10:53] Joe: I’m really bad at this. And I would always say that’s why I’m here to show you if everybody [00:11:00] knew what I did. I’d be out of a job. And so I developed that, that we’ll say empathy for the student or for the learner at that point. And then when I went to grad school, I didn’t want to pay for grad school.

[00:11:14] Joe: So I applied for a teaching assistantship and I got it. And so I got to teach a one credit class three or four times a week. And I thought that was so fun. And when I graduated, I told the C the computer science department, when you have an opening for an adjunct professor, let me know. And they’re like, we have an opening.

[00:11:32] Joe: And so I got to teach there, but it was great. I learned as much. This is like so cliche. I learned as much from my students as they learn from me. Right. Because by the time I started teaching, I was 10 years into a web design, web development computer career. And so. You forget what you didn’t know. Right.

[00:11:55] Joe: And, and I, so those students reminded me right. One time [00:12:00] I was trying to explain to them, like the difference between a page and a post in WordPress. And one of my students just raised her hand and said, I have no idea what any of that means. And I was like, great, I will rephrase this and explain it to you in, in non jargony terms.

[00:12:16] Joe: And so when you ask what my goal is for my students and, and the programs I create it’s, it’s, I’ll use the terminology that I stole from Troy Dean, which is getting my students from zero to win. And he says that he does that over the entirety of the course, as well as each individual lesson. So I would call it, learn by doing, I don’t just want to talk at somebody and then expect them to understand, right.

[00:12:45] Joe: Cause that’s like my experience with math. It was like teacher would explain it and then I’m like, I totally get it. And then I would do the homework and I’m like, I don’t even remotely get this. So I want them

[00:12:55] Joe: to,

[00:12:56] Joanne: is supposed to, be logical.

[00:12:57] Joe: exactly. I felt, I felt [00:13:00] quick sidebar. I dropped out of calc. I withdrew from calc and I felt so bad.

[00:13:04] Joe: Cause my teacher Dr Forzola was a really good be a Yankee fan. So like we were buddies and I legit said, it’s not you it’s me. When I withdrew from this class, I was like, I’m really sorry. It’s not you it’s me. But so, so when I approach my classes, there’s always some goal for each lesson and I want my students to have something tangible.

[00:13:27] Joe: By the end of the course. So by the end of this course, you will have a podcast in, in apple podcasts or by the end of this course, you will have a website that is fully using full site editing. And that helps students work along with each lesson. And then when they get stuck, they can ask while it’s fresh.

[00:13:45] Joe: And then I can adjust the lesson or explain it in a different way.

[00:13:50] Joanne: Yeah.

[00:13:50] Joanne: And that way they can also move along with their own content, personality, their own brand, their own agency. They don’t feel like they have [00:14:00] to abide, like do exactly just like a copy paste of exactly what you did. So that I feel like that I think that it has a lot of value for the people who are doing those courses.

[00:14:10] Joanne: Like, it’s not like, oh, you’re going to do the same thing I did. No it’s no, no, no, no. This is more of a, like a framework for you to actually apply to your business. And I think that’s such a good approach, a good, I mean, useful approach in terms of good trying to reframe my mind from saying good or bad, if it was everything is relative. right.

[00:14:31] Joanne: So in this context, I mean, like it’s a useful approach. It’s tangible in terms of how you can apply it to your.

[00:14:39] Joe: Yeah. Thank you. And I agree. And especially with when you’re selling courses, right? Cause like college is kind of a captive audience. Most of the time they have to take the course usually. But if people are buying a course that you’re selling, most people buy courses, aspirationally course completion rates are abysmal like 10% of people who buy [00:15:00] courses, complete them.

[00:15:01] Joe: I am absolutely guilty of this. And it’s. And so when you are showing, first of all, when you break each lesson up into a zero to win, now they can take the course. Over time when they want to, right. This is called just-in-time learning. I need to learn how to do this thing. This lesson from this course I bought will show me how to do it.

[00:15:22] Joe: So I’m going to watch this video and then move on to the thing I’m trying to do. But if they are taking the whole course and they’re doing something along the way, now they’re encouraged to finish, right? Because it’s like that fallacy of sunk cost a little bit, but it’s also, people want to complete the things they start.

[00:15:37] Joe: So if we start off and say, okay, install, install a WordPress site on local a and here’s how to do that. All right. Now you have some, now you have a thing that you can work from right now. We’re going to install this theme or record your first episode of your podcast. Great. Now, now I have something tangible..

[00:15:56] Joanne: Real quick, can you just speak to the fallacy sunk [00:16:00] cost.

[00:16:00] Joe: Totally. Yeah. The fallacy of sunk cost is when somebody is, I don’t think I used it correctly as I was explaining it, but it’s the idea that you are you’ve spent so much time on something that you’re going to finish it, no matter what. Right. So in, in poker, let’s say if you’re not familiar with Texas, Hold’em you get two cards and then you make a bet.

[00:16:24] Joe: Right? So let’s say, I bet a dollar. All right. Then the dealer flips over three cards. So then I look at the cards in my hand and the cards that he just turned over and now I make another. Then comes the fourth card. This is called the turn card. I look at my cards, somebody bets. I make another bet.

[00:16:42] Joe: Now the river comes and I know that the river is the last card. Sorry, the fifth card comes. So I have seven cards and I need to make the best five card hand, and I’m looking at it and I’m like, there’s no way I can win this hand. And the person I’m playing against raises me a hundred dollars. [00:17:00] Well, I’m already in it for $50.

[00:17:02] Joe: So I might as well just see it through that’s the fallacy of the sunk cost, right? Or if you’re, if, if we’re relating it to digital agency owners, right. You’re working on a plugin or you’re working on a proposal and you spent 10 hours on this proposal and you’re like, this is, this is terrible. The client’s never going to go for it.

[00:17:22] Joe: And even if they do go for it, it’s not going to be good for my business, but I’ve already spent 10 hours on it. So now I’m going to send it to this. And if they accept it well, they’ve accepted it. So now I’m in it. That’s the fallacy of that sunk cost. You should cut your losses. But people like to complete the things they start

[00:17:38] Morayo: I was going to say, you said, cut your losses. I was thinking you do need to know when to hold them, Joe, when to

[00:17:44] Joe: and, and when to fold them. That’s exactly right.

[00:17:48] Morayo: And when the dealings done you know, I think, you know, you are your parents wisely named you Joseph because I think you just demonstrated for everyone why you are such an effective [00:18:00] instructor, such and such a great teacher and inspiring small business leaders and your students every day. It’s so awesome to hear you speak on that.

[00:18:06] Morayo: One of the other elements of your, of your great teaching is the community that you build into your courses and your creative courses. You place a really high emphasis on community. And I thought I was wondering if you could talk about your own experience in different communities over your 20 years as a developer, as a course creator and small business owner.

[00:18:29] Morayo: And what is the value like why do you emphasize students engage in the community and that you have that strong community to offer.

[00:18:39] Joe: Yeah, I’m, I’m an extrovert. I dunno. If you can tell an extrovert and I was heavily involved in. Community. I mean, I guess I, well, I shouldn’t say everybody, but I was certainly involved in communities from a young age. My, my dad coached my first tee-ball team and made sure I was involved in soccer.

[00:18:59] Joe: [00:19:00] And then I joined drama club. Like my teacher, shout out Ms. McCullough, who I think is now sister Mary sister, Mary. She she saw in me the, the ability to act and be on stage and, and be in front of people. And she made sure I joined drama club, which I did from second grade all through through 12th grade.

[00:19:19] Joe: And so, yeah, it was so much, I like missed it. This is why I podcast people asked why podcast it’s cause I missed drama club. But those communities brought out the best in me. Right. And the WordPress community. When I first started the WordPress community gave me my first speaking gig. And now I love, I mean, I knew from drama club that I would love speaking probably, but I didn’t have that confidence.

[00:19:46] Joe: I didn’t think, oh, I can get on stage and, and show a complete group of strangers who isn’t a captive audience. What I know. And now it’s one of my favorite things to do. And so being, being parts of communities have, [00:20:00] have made me better. And they’re so important. I just I joined the marketing committee for my daughter’s school last night.

[00:20:06] Joe: She goes to a small kit. Well, I don’t know if it’s small, but a Catholic school St Joe’s and so they don’t have a marketing budget. So other than, you know, marketing committee and they need somebody who knows websites. And that first meeting, I was so excited when I left. It was, it was great to be interacting with people again.

[00:20:23] Joe: And so. Communities show you that you’re not alone. I think because this is something that I was feeling throughout the pandemic and I’m not from the area I live. This is my wife’s hometown. So I don’t have a lot of friends here. And last night I went to this, this committee meeting of five people, six people.

[00:20:43] Joe: And I, I felt instantly like I was part of something. And so when my students are taking an online course at home I don’t want them to feel like they’re alone, you know? Oh, I I’m having trouble submitting this to apple podcasts. [00:21:00] Yes. Apple podcasts makes it seem impossible. And so you can ask a question in my community and other people will ask.

[00:21:08] Joe: And I think that’s the, the, when you’re, when you’re learning you, it’s, it’s better to learn together and it’s better to go together. And the community helps that it, it lets people know that they’re not the only person taking this course. And if they get stuck, they only have me. They have other people who are at the same stage of them as them, or then they can figure it out together.

[00:21:30] Joanne: Yeah. and I, I, I think it’s so important as well to reiterate the you’re not alone in this problem has most likely already happened to someone and it’s not in your head because it’s in those, in those times where you’re frustrated and you’re just like, I don’t know what it is. It’s just not working. It’s a me problem.

[00:21:48] Joanne: It’s it’s not you it’s me. Going somewhere where you can ask and in total confidence and, and, and you know that like, [00:22:00] no one’s going to like, make fun of you or anything like that because that’s, everyone’s like their worst fear, right. Of saying like, oh, you know, you’re not good enough or anything. Not knowing that all of those things are like, stay at the door when you’re in those communities is so important.

[00:22:15] Joanne: And I think they’re so valuable. And that’s really what I love. Like, as, as an outsider coming into the WordPress community only for a year now, I found that. Kind of validation in our happiness hours class calls going to say classes and the agency owners group, because I get to connect with a lot of agency owners who may be frustrated about something, or just want to celebrate like a really good win, you know, even if like things like, you know, I just made my first six figure deal like that’s and being able to support people and be there for them, it feels you know, it’s kind of like for me, it’s like an anxiety [00:23:00] reliever reliever, because like, when you don’t know what to do, like helping others is so helpful as well. Cause they won’t feel that.

[00:23:08] Morayo: No. Absolutely. And I’ll I’ll I’ll add onto that. Since we’re talking about, you know content and creativity, creating content I’m so ashamed that I’ve forgotten his last name. One of the writers for, he worked with Norman Lear, a great producer of television, revolutionized television.

[00:23:25] Morayo: First name is Jerry last name. I’ve totally lost it. But anyway, he was a writer for the Jeffersons the golden girls and several other shows.

[00:23:32] Morayo: And I was in a writing course with him and that’s one of the things he said about the value and almost the the sacredness of the writing of the writer’s room. It has to be a safe place to fail and explore and to ask, is this anything? And I think that you don’t, you don’t have to be a Hollywood writer for that to be applicable to the work that you do in anything whether it’s creating contents or developing new new sites or, or a podcast you know, is this anything [00:24:00] and having that safe response from, from others is so important.

[00:24:05] Morayo: Otherwise you killed off creativity.

[00:24:07] Morayo: So

[00:24:07] Joanne: And what’s the point of that?

[00:24:09] Morayo: what is the point of that?

[00:24:11] Joe: At ideas and brainstorming. Right. It’s funny, you said, is this anything? Cause isn’t that also the name of Seinfeld’s new book, it’s called this as anything.

[00:24:18] Joanne: oh, really?

[00:24:19] Joe: Are you thinking Jerry Lewis?

[00:24:21] Morayo: No, no, no, no, no, no, no. I can find it while we’re talking. No, it’s a, he’s an awesome guy. But I can’t recall his last.

[00:24:28] Joanne: Which is very interesting because I go to Emily all the time with like half baked baked ideas. Like, is this something, am I like. Dreaming like daydreaming. Like what is that? And she’s like, wait, no, yes, this is definitely hold on. Let me take, cause you never know who’s going to take something and, and help you run with it or who you can sell an idea to based on like a small nugget of, or small seed of something that can be, you know, and I think that’s just so [00:25:00] powerful in itself.

[00:25:01] Joe: One more point on that is I, I would also try to embody that when I was on the other side. Right? So like if I was in a classroom and the teacher asked if there were any questions and I had questions, I would always ask them. Right. I would always ask them.

[00:25:15] Joe: Cause I know I’m probably not the only person. And even if I am, I’m not like ashamed that I don’t know something I’m going to ask. And I carry that professionally too. When I left my last full-time job. My, my my employees, my coworkers messaged me and they’re like, so who’s going to ask all the hard questions, like during the company meeting.

[00:25:34] Joe: And I’m like, any of it was, it was in you all along. Like if you have these questions, just ask them.

[00:25:41] Joanne: And that’s your legacy, Joe.

[00:25:43] Joe: yeah, right. Yeah. Just, just like I asked, like hard, like we were having trouble making payroll and we had hired somebody and I was like, so are we telling this new hire that we’re having trouble making payroll?

[00:25:55] Joe: And like, people, like, I can’t believe you asked that. And I’m like, I would want to know that. [00:26:00] So I’m never going to be afraid to ask a question. I’m never going to be afraid to ask a question.

[00:26:04] Joanne: Yeah. I, yeah. As someone who has been called obtuse and awkward for asking hard questions Yeah. There was a, like an unveiling of a branding of the new branding of a previous company. I was, and there was, everyone was like, all of the stakeholders were called to the podium and they were talking about, you know, how, how great is the brand new reflect reflected? , the new values of the company, all of these things, and they were all men and all, everyone in the, in the audience, we were all like, whispering like seriously, like not event?

[00:26:36] Joanne: We have product designers where women there, there are two, but there are there. And. They were asking for questions. They’re like, really? No, one’s going to ask any questions. And I’m like, I was terrified to ask, but I was like, were there any women involved in this, in this decision-making and everyone in the audience, you know, was like, yeah, you know, everyone like applauding, clamoring all of these things, but the [00:27:00] whole podium, they were just like stark face.

[00:27:01] Joanne: And of course, cause I fit all of these, you know, executives and directors and VPs into a very uncomfortable position in the front and in front of the whole company. And you know, it’s my point with this is that it’s really hard to ask these type of questions, but you never know who’s going to be seen.

[00:27:24] Joanne: And who’s going to see that and be able to validate either their story, their thoughts with what you said. So.

[00:27:33] Joe: The person that you asked the question to, might’ve not liked the question, but your peer. Appreciated it and maybe we’re emboldened by it. Right. And I think that, so like if I, I am somebody who I maybe it seems like I complain on Twitter a lot. I’ve been trying hard not to, but I will not complain unless I have complaints to the appropriate people.

[00:27:58] Joe: And I have a [00:28:00] suggestion, right. I’m not just going to bring up problems without solutions. Right. That’s my brother’s managing style too. He, he works at Disney. And so when some, when a cast member comes to him and has a complaint and he’s like, what is your proposed solution? And they’re like, I don’t know.

[00:28:14] Joe: And he’s like, well, I’ll come back to me with a proposed solution. So you want to, you want to empower people, whether it’s your peers, whether it’s your students and, and getting them to ask questions and, and, and, and open up and, and talk about their struggles. That’s how they’re going to learn and grow.

[00:28:29] Joe: I think this one, really this one, a lot deeper than I expected it to.

[00:28:33] Morayo: That’s that’s what, that’s what we’re all about here. And

[00:28:36] Joanne: We really went there.

[00:28:37] Morayo: You, you mentioned Disney and I was thinking, should we jump ahead to Disney? Maybe we’ll come back to Disney because we do want to talk about Disney, but I

[00:28:44] Joe: little teaser,

[00:28:45] Morayo: a little teaser stay tuned friends. But I wanna, I wanna, this is a great place to pivot because we’re, we’re talking about information and how information and ideas are shared in our, in our, these contemporary times and you know, [00:29:00] diversity and all of that.

[00:29:01] Morayo: And you know, when you talk about not being afraid to ask a question, we look back in history all the time at moments of tragedy and loss. Oftentimes those, those cataclysmic moments, weren’t unperceived somebody at the table thought something’s wrong with this scenario, but they didn’t speak up. And then in retrospect, it’s like, why didn’t we connect the dots?

[00:29:23] Morayo: And we can look at so many events, nine 11 the assassination of so many of our leaders. And it’s like, somebody knew something. It was off, but didn’t speak up. But I want to look back to the past, but not something less tragic than a necessitation of a leader. Let’s talk about one of the people you like, Mr.

[00:29:40] Morayo: Bill gates. We’re going to go back in the way back machine to last century to about 1996. And that, that phrase content is king is a phrase that a lot of us were familiar with. And I did some digging. I wasn’t familiar with the origin or who first coined the phrase turns out it was Mr. William Gates.

[00:29:58] Morayo: He wrote an essay [00:30:00] back in the day and I’ll just read out some of the, some of the main points of the, of the essay he wrote. Some of those ideas were in a content is where much of the real money will be made on the internet just as it is, as it was in broadcasting. He said, content. We’ll go far beyond software news, no company.

[00:30:22] Morayo: This really stuck out to me. No company is too small to participate in content creation and content creation will ultimately sweep the world. As communication costs come down and a critical mass of localized content becomes available in different countries for the internet to thrive. Content providers must be paid for their work.

[00:30:41] Morayo: Great. We’re talking about content and monetization today. Gates also said often their efforts are based on passion and on the belief that over time, someone will figure out how to get. Revenue. We’re we’re there, we’re, we’re aware bill cause real first name basis. W what he predicted, he thought we were, [00:31:00] we were in 1996, he felt we were just a year away from having the processes in place for content to be monetized.

[00:31:07] Morayo: So is that, should we all just sit back and say, yeah, bill was right. Content is still king and small businesses can, can be a part of the game. Considering that everybody once upon a time, sorry, I’m making this find a question in this, in this monologue, but once upon a time, the marketing department, you know, they were responsible for creating the content that, you know, that earned it in revenue, but everybody’s involved now, you know, this, this podcast know we’re creating kind of cheating.

[00:31:39] Morayo: The Joanne is marketing, but, but I, I don’t know. It. All sorts of staff, people are, are, have become the creators. So I guess my question for you in that diatribe is, was he right? I mean, what, what is the role? Where should small businesses, how should they be stepping into content in 2021 [00:32:00] and beyond

[00:32:01] Joanne: only 22

[00:32:02] Morayo: 2023 practical?

[00:32:03] Morayo: Yeah,

[00:32:03] Joe: 22. Yeah. Gosh.

[00:32:05] Morayo: 21st century. Now what that will cover us for awhile.

[00:32:08] Joe: Perfect. I think that this, I mean, 1996, that’s precious. Right. And, and the fact that precious prescient is the fact that bill gates was saying, you know, it’s. No company is too small. Microsoft has already huge at this point, right? Like windows 95 was out. They had that super awkward dance release party thing.

[00:32:29] Joe: That’s like a meme now. And, and so I, I can’t agree with this enough because bill gates is a, a mind unlike any other that we’ll, we’ll see. And he, he’s very good at taking the long view on a lot of things. And so he looked in the past and he looked at what broadcasting did, and then he properly predicted that the internet would do the same thing.

[00:32:53] Joe: And it’s easier than ever now for anybody to make money [00:33:00] on the internet with their content. Right. Patreon when Patreon came along any creator could sign up for a Patreon account and monetize their. One of the first, I think one of the first bloggers who made money from their blog is Jason. Kottke one of the first micro bloggers, right?

[00:33:19] Joe: Cocky.org. He started taking money in like 1998, I think, or 2000, something like that, where it was a lot harder because like PayPal, gosh, was PayPal even around in

[00:33:30] Joanne: No, it was, I don’t PayPal came around in 1998. You’re right.

[00:33:35] Joe: Okay. Yeah. So

[00:33:36] Joanne: Let me, let me verify that real quick,

[00:33:38] Joe: but like super early days. Yeah. Right.

[00:33:41] Joanne: Yeah. 98,

[00:33:42] Joe: people nice, nicely

[00:33:43] Joanne: 98,

[00:33:44] Joe: I really have met my match with, with pop cultural references, I guess.

[00:33:48] Joanne: Musk and Peter Thiel

[00:33:51] Joe: yeah, Yes. Both like crazy rich guys now. But So I think that today it’s easier than ever. Right. You can like on Twitter, [00:34:00] it’d be like, I want to have a newsletter and Twitter will be like, okay, do you want to charge for it? Right. And then you can put out your newsletter that way, sub stack Patreon and and this is, you don’t have to build your own platform. Right? I know in the WordPress space people talk a lot about you need to own your own platform. And like it’s like owning a house versus renting an apartment. When I rented an apartment, I didn’t need to pay $10,000 to replace my HVAC.

[00:34:27] Joe: You know, I could just live in the apartment and if something broke, I would call the super.

[00:34:33] Joanne: I think it’s just also in addition to it too, and I hate to interrupt you, but it’s just when you’re on the platform thing. I, I agree with your point and I just want to add to that is that now the way audiences are built, they’re on platforms and you have to have a very, very dedicated, very active community and community within your audience, [00:35:00] which is that’s very important to distinguish just because you have an audience of like, let’s say 10,000 people doesn’t mean that they’re part of the engaged community of 1500.

[00:35:10] Joanne: They have to be very active and willing to migrate to different platforms. It’s not the same as having 7 million followers on tick-tock then having, you know, I don’t know, 20,000 people who buy your from your Instagram store. So it’s, it’s, there are so many levels to, to this platform and audience and community.

[00:35:34] Joanne: And I, I might, I may be digressing, but it’s all like, the content is kind of like the hook. Right. And then it’s your job to kind of like, keep them, keep them fed rather than eating the fish, I guess. I don’t know if That’s a good analogy.

[00:35:47] Joe: you made, you made an excellent point, right? I wrote a blog post about this when Facebook went down, back in when it was just Facebook.

[00:35:54] Morayo: We all remember where we were.

[00:35:56] Joe: Yeah, exactly. I got so much done that day. [00:36:00] But, you know, people, again, it was easy for me to be like, you got to own your own platform, right? Sure. If I want to go off and build a cabin in the woods, away from everybody on unincorporated land.

[00:36:18] Joe: So I don’t have to pay taxes, but it’s my house. I don’t, I’m not going to expect anybody to come visit me because there’s no roads. There’s no infrastructure. There’s no grocery store.

[00:36:28] Morayo: Mm.

[00:36:29] Joe: So yeah, there is definitely a place and time for you to own your own platform, but don’t dog not owning your platform or whatever.

[00:36:39] Joe: Right. That’s, it’s still somebody today as we record this said doesn’t anybody write blog posts anymore? Cause they were reading like Twitter threads and I was like, yes, people are writing their blog posts on. Where you get instant gratification because people are liking like every point you make, what platform allows people to like specific paragraph, I guess medium lets you do that now that I’m thinking about it, but [00:37:00] yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly.

[00:37:02] Joe: So, and, and that’s where your audience is, right? You don’t have to be like, Hey, go to my site. If you just here’s, here are my thoughts. Turn it into a blog post if you want, but bring the message to where your audiences.

[00:37:18] Joanne: Yeah. And I think it’s really interesting that you mentioned the, the Twitter thread thing, because there are some amazing marketers making a lot of great points within Twitter threads, but I’m so interested in the life cycle of a Twitter thread in terms of how do you, how do you take that? And also. Distribute that and, and, and repurpose that content into different, you know, maybe one making a blog post is is very valuable. But I’m also very interested in the life cycle of the Twitter thread, because it’s exactly what you say. It’s the instant gratification, like who doesn’t want to go, like what, what’s more valuable going viral and getting, I dunno, 20,000 [00:38:00] retweets or having a blog post with a comment section off.

[00:38:05] Joe: Right. And so a couple of things there, right? You make a really good point about lifecycle. Right? I had a guest on my podcast, her name’s Elizabeth Pamphilon and she dropped some crazy knowledge on me. That was like Facebook post 30 minutes Twitter, the life cycle of a tweet is 21 minutes. Meanwhile, Pinterest is like 151,000 hours.

[00:38:27] Joe: So Twitter thread have a clear call to action at the end of it. Right. This is what they recommend on the oh gosh. It’s like it’s Allie. And another name that rhymes with Allie or the the

[00:38:40] Joanne: start saying names.

[00:38:41] Joe: Yeah. The deliverability podcast from convert kit. It’s so good. And you know, they, they gave some tips on Twitter threads.

[00:38:48] Joe: It’s like you have a Twitter thread, have a clear call to action at the end to get people onto your mailing list. Right. But then you can also write, you can take those tweets and turn them into a blog post. There are apps out there like CHIRR get your [00:39:00] app.com that lets you compose a Twitter thread.

[00:39:04] Joe: It’ll break it up into a thread for you. So I will like type long form thoughts in my writing app, paste it over into chair, have a Twitter thread, and then I can publish it to my blog too. So it’s, you know, you wanna, you want to repurpose absolutely where you can, but you also, like we said, you want to be where your is.

[00:39:25] Joanne: Yeah. And we’ll have all, everything we mentioned. We’ll have that on the show notes. Just for, for anyone who’s wondering, it’s like going back, like, what is it? Was it chirp? Was it, can you repeat that? The trip?

[00:39:37] Joe: I’ll I’ll, I’ll, I’ll making notes, but it’s get sure. C H I R R app.com. Yeah.

[00:39:48] Joanne: Can you automate those, the chirp?

[00:39:50] Joe: Yeah, yeah. You can schedule threads and a neat feature that they recently rolled out was you can, you can [00:40:00] drip out the threads now. So I can say here’s a thread started on this date, publish one tweet from the thread each day. So I don’t know if you’ve been following my tweet 100 posts. But they’ve been like threads on topics.

[00:40:14] Joe: Chair is doing all of that for me.

[00:40:15] Joanne: That’s really cool. It’s a super helpful tool for all content managers and community managers out there. So I’ll, I’ll take a note on that.

[00:40:25] Joe: Yeah. Big fan of it. And Publer just recently rolled out in Publer. Like I got AppSumo lifetime deal. It’s like the only one I use. And they recently rolled that out too, but their interface is a little bit more clunky. Cause it’s like, you have to make a thread by starting a tweet and then adding comments to it.

[00:40:41] Joe: Cause they wanted other platforms where like Chirr is like, this is for tweet threads. We know what we’re about. So it’s a, there’s a lot of value in that.

[00:40:50] Joanne: Do one thing into a very, very well, I don’t know who said someone importance of that.

[00:40:55] Joanne: But Yeah.

[00:40:55] Joanne: that, that, that really speaks to me.

[00:40:59] Morayo: Well, [00:41:00] you said it today, so that’s why people will quote you from here on out. So we have to, we have to circle back to Disney. You mentioned that your brother or your brother-in-law works for, for

[00:41:11] Joe: My brother. Yeah, my youngest brother and my favorite brothers. What I tell people because we’re at the same.

[00:41:17] Joanne: Does he.

[00:41:17] Joanne: give you a Disney pass?

[00:41:19] Joe: Yeah. Yeah. My other brothers

[00:41:21] Joanne: He’d be my favorite too.

[00:41:21] Joe: My other brothers now.

[00:41:24] Morayo: You have to, and they have to earn, earn their keep in your heart. So, so you are, you know, anyone who follows you online or who talks to you knows that you’re all about family and they might even get a sense of your love of Disney. And I was wondering did was the love for Disney, always there. Did the chill be rival of the children be wring the Disney?

[00:41:44] Joe: was always there.

[00:41:45] Morayo: it was always there. It was always

[00:41:47] Joe: Always there. We went for the first time in, well, we went for the first time in like 1989 when I was like four, but the first memorable time was like 1999. My [00:42:00] dad wants to take. One more big family trip before I went to high school where I guess he thought I would like abandon the family.

[00:42:06] Joe: And then we, we started taking annual trips to Disney and it was just, there was so much to do in so much fun that I, it was always just like a positive experience for me. And then when we got older, my parents would be like, yay, go. This is a safe place, go off and doing

[00:42:24] Joanne: Do your own

[00:42:25] Joe: going to, yeah, we’re going to get massages or whatever.

[00:42:27] Joe: And I just thought that was so great. And there’s so much to do. And every time we went, there was something new to discover. And then my brother and then I graduated from college and my brother had got a job in the Disney college program because he loved, he loves it even more than I do, but we also I’ll just, I’ll say we also love the story of Walt Disney.

[00:42:47] Joe: Like Walt Disney is like, Great work hard. Do the things again, a visionary like, like, like we won’t see for a long time, I think. And [00:43:00] so when I had disposable income and my brother was working there and I was working remote, I would just go to, to visit him in Florida sometimes. And we would go to the parks and if I had to work, I would work in one of the areas there.

[00:43:15] Joe: And it just, it was

[00:43:17] Joanne: of the Caribbean

[00:43:18] Joe: yeah, just hang out one time. I worked one time, I worked in a there’s like this, if you have like a chase credit card, there’s like this chase lounge. And I went there and I was. Overlooking spaceship earth, which is the big golf ball at Epcot. Epcot is my favorite park spaceship.

[00:43:36] Joe: Earth is my favorite ride. Well, haunted mansion is my favorite ride, but spaceship earth is my favorite ride at Epcot because it’s like a ride all about communication. Amazing. Anyway, and so that was just like, from, from a young age through adulthood, it was always such a positive impact for me. I have like ran half marathons at Disney world, which is well run as generous.

[00:43:58] Joe: I participated [00:44:00] in half marathons.

[00:44:01] Joanne: ran that half marathon.

[00:44:03] Joe: I ran as best as I could. I completed half marathons,

[00:44:07] Joanne: There you go. I can’t say.

[00:44:08] Joe: and so it’s, it’s, I mean, people say, if I can do it, you can do it, but really if I can do it, you can do it. I’m like my right leg is like shorter than my left leg. And like, I’m a Husky guy I’m not built to run.

[00:44:19] Joe: And so it’s just always been, and now my kids love it. Of course, too. And yeah. We were going to go in March of 20, 20 before my son came along that fell through. so now we’ll yeah, we’ll probably wait until number three is around six months or so I think in what we’re thinking.

[00:44:37] Morayo: Where you make the trip and it’s always you mentioned our friend waltz, Disney. It’s always it’s frequently a lesson, I think in most business schools, what, what he imagined and what he ultimately created it lives on today. I guess his children and grandchildren are fighting among many different topics and things, but you know, they, content is something that they got, right.

[00:44:58] Morayo: They did a finger to write [00:45:00] Disney, though. They are Disney, the global monster that they are. And I say, monster, not in a negative way.

[00:45:06] Joe: Yeah.

[00:45:07] Morayo: What

[00:45:07] Joe: I like Sally,

[00:45:09] Morayo: you, yeah, exactly.

[00:45:10] Joe: like Sally from monsters Inc. Right?

[00:45:11] Morayo: Exactly. Oh, I thought she meant, I thought she meant Scully who like flew the plane over,

[00:45:15] Joe: Oh, no,

[00:45:18] Joanne: whoa.

[00:45:19] Morayo: the same. All right.

[00:45:20] Joe: that’s the same.

[00:45:20] Joanne: That was fun to watch.

[00:45:21] Morayo: That movie may have been sponsored partially by Disney, but the what can small business owners and freelancers learn from the Disney way of creating content? And, you know, when I say branding Disney, that seems like such a, a mountain of an idea, but it started Walt Disney. Didn’t start where the company is now.

[00:45:44] Morayo: So what can what can a small business owners take away from what they’ve done?

[00:45:49] Joe: Yeah. What a great question. And I will, I will pick this lesson from the Pantheon of, of Walt Disney lessons. Walt [00:46:00] Disney insisted that all of their animations from a certain time on, especially all of their movies were done in color and he got pushback from other people saying, no one has color TVs, this technology isn’t around yet.

[00:46:16] Joe: And Walt understood that there would be that technology. And if they didn’t do it now, then they’d have to go back and redo it or be, you know, behind the times. And so Walt was very forward-thinking there, but the lesson that I would want people to take is if you are going to do something, do it well. So no matter what content you’re creating, right?

[00:46:40] Joe: I’ve heard people go, oh, I just like, kind of record the zoom call and then upload it. And I’m like, all right, well, that’s, that’s not a lot of effort. And your listeners will be able to tell my worst performing YouTube videos are the ones I just recorded real quick. Cause I felt like I needed to publish them. And that’s another thing, [00:47:00] you know, they’ll save the YouTube favors, the algorithm and consistency, but if viewers favor quality. So if you need to skip that Tuesday that you usually publish and put it out Wednesday or Thursday, because it’ll ultimately be better, take the extra time and do it. Right.

[00:47:19] Joe: Like my boss, Mr. would always say do it once, do it. Right. So

[00:47:24] Morayo: Izzy, you know, my my artistic partner, he is an animator and he was one of he’s no longer with Disney, but he was, he was with Disney at one point. And one of our favorite bars in LA was in Snow White cafe. And he would sit there and you know, they had the, they had the characters painted on the wall and he’d be sitting back with like a Stein of beer and just like looking at the he’s a very meticulous man, Sam, and he would just stare at the images and go, they’re not right.

[00:47:47] Morayo: They’re not like, just like in calling out all of the, all of that was wrong with the, with the renderings and all that. That’s not

[00:47:53] Joe: yeah.

[00:47:54] Morayo: listen to beta. And he’s so we’ve, we’ve worked together on a lot of different projects and he can be [00:48:00] maddening, Mattingly, Mattingly, meticulous, but the quality of his work, I mean, he’s done like a princess and the frog and a Rapunzel and he

[00:48:11] Joanne: Wow.

[00:48:11] Morayo: he just won.

[00:48:12] Morayo: They, they just wanted an Oscar for Hair Love. That was probably two years ago before the pandemic he’s like the work, like you said, it pays off and yeah, like they don’t, it takes, he’s done his own projects before and I’m like, Sam, let’s do this. Let’s do that. And it’s it’s but it takes time. And so having that patience to say, no, we’re going to wait till this job is right.

[00:48:34] Morayo: But in the end, I mean, look, Disney Disney is what it is because they waited until we had everything right.

[00:48:40] Joe: Yeah, absolutely.

[00:48:41] Joe: By the way, Princess and The Frog. I just saw it for the first time recently because my own daughter watched it so good.

[00:48:47] Joanne: beautiful

[00:48:48] Morayo: You know, you know what, let how old is your toddler? Is your daughter again, if you mind sharing

[00:48:53] Joe: she’s four yeah,

[00:48:54] Morayo: let’s let’s, let’s talk and I’ll have Sam send her something. He does it all the time for my, for my nieces and nephews all the time. He’ll send them like [00:49:00] drawings and things like that. Yeah.

[00:49:02] Joanne: awesome.

[00:49:03] Morayo: So,

[00:49:03] Joanne: going to do it like a counterpoint, but no, I’m

[00:49:06] Joe: You should do the counterpoint.

[00:49:07] Joanne: Just, just as til we can get both sides of the coin as well in our industry as well. Like I do understand that attention to detail is very important. Putting effort into your, into your work. Yeah.

[00:49:19] Joanne: No one wants a half-ass job. Th that’s not what we’re here for, but on top of all that, I, I also want to make note of that. We’re not talking here about like getting analysis paralysis from getting over and over and trying to finish like, oh, it’s never going to be done. We’re not, we’re not doing Disney Disney films here.

[00:49:39] Joanne: I’m done is better than perfect. And in most of our cases for what we put out and. And I’m not, I don’t think anyone that, that, that we, well, none of us here ship things that are half-assed, but I do think that done is better than perfect sometimes. And just to your point of [00:50:00] benefit in the algorithm and in this world of algorithms, only these, who are we really making content for?

[00:50:05] Joanne: Like, I think it’s really important to ask yourself that question, like, who are you making content for? Are you asking, are you making content for an algorithm? That’s going to possibly show this to someone on the offhand that that person will become your client. You gotta be a little bit more strategic than that.

[00:50:20] Joanne: You know, you, we also are making content for people who, who will convert, hopefully.

[00:50:26] Joe: I, I want to stress that. I want to stress that because I, I just wrapped up a five week program, a five week bootcamp called beyond eight to teach podcasters how to get beyond the get to the eighth episode. Right. Cause most podcasts stop after seven. And I, I said that repeatedly. Right? So it’s it’s maybe it sounds like conflicting messages done is better than perfect.

[00:50:52] Joe: But, but done does all also doesn’t mean half-assed right. So you can put the effort in, [00:51:00] give yourself a deadline, do the best job you can and, and put out that content. Maybe it’s not going to be as perfect as you think it, as you originally thought it would be, but put it out there. Right. And, and so I, again, I know, I

[00:51:15] Morayo: I’m giggling. Oh, sorry. No, sorry. Go ahead.

[00:51:18] Joe: Oh no. I, I mean, I was just going to say, you know, it’s, it’s

[00:51:22] Joe: get it, get it out there. Some of the videos that, and, and also like, we’re our own worst enemy. Right? Cause sometimes I’ll put out a video and I was like, this was trash and it, like, it kills, it kills. So I think, I think put in an honest effort and put it out there, but don’t just, don’t just say I’m going to throw something together real quick.

[00:51:42] Joe: That has never worked out for me.

[00:51:44] Morayo: There’s so many people in this world, you will reach someone with your best efforts, whatever that is. And I’m giggling here agreeing with you both, because I’m thinking of the number of times I’ve walked off a stage, evaluating my performance, saying that just was awful because of XYZ. And then you go out, [00:52:00] you know, you, you take your costume off, you’re just ready to get into your car.

[00:52:03] Morayo: And someone’s waiting in the lobby with tears in their eyes going, I love this performance. That meant so much to me. I’ll never forget it for XYZ. And it’s like, do your best and let, let the audience interprets the value and what they’ll take away from it. So man, this has been an awesome conversation.

[00:52:20] Morayo: We might have to do a let’s just go ahead and agree. We will do a part two of this. And before, before we wrap up, do you want to, because I’d GoWP, we’re all about creating happiness. Do you want to share with us how you’re creating happiness for yourself this week or something that is creating happiness?

[00:52:37] Joe: Something that is creating happiness for me. I, this is, gosh, this week it’s going to sound like a weird answer maybe, but the, the marketing committee that I went to yesterday and it’s just, I’m excited. Cause I guess it’s cause my dad was always, my parents were involved in the things we did. And so [00:53:00] I’m happy and excited to be joining a new community, expanding my network and contributing to my daughter’s school. In, in the best way that I know.

[00:53:13] Joanne: such a cool way to show up for your kid to like it’s share. I may not like, nah, you just got to show up. You’re doing a great job.

[00:53:23] Joe: my dad was, my dad was at every single baseball game. Every every drama club performance, every soccer game. Like he he made sure that, that I couldn’t see him. And he had four kids, four boys all around S like all sick within six years of each other. So like he must have paid the scheduler to make sure that we played on adjacent fields all the time.

[00:53:48] Morayo: Back again, Mr. Casabona. Yeah. Joe, you got Louie back again, seeing Joe this

[00:53:54] Joe: Louie, come on. Let’s go. I’ll put my lawn chair in between these two fields. Put my kids there.[00:54:00]

[00:54:01] Morayo: This has been an awesome conversation. Mr. Joe Casabona. So thank you. Thank you. Thank you for being our guest today.

[00:54:08] Joe: My absolute pleasure. Thanks so much for having me. Thanks for letting me talk for way too long.

[00:54:13] Morayo: No, this is no, this is great.

[00:54:15] Joanne: And Thank you for allowing me to do all those counterpoints and having, just being such a great conversationalist. Thank you to everyone. who listened or watched on this on YouTube, don’t forget to like and subscribe and you can get this and other episodes of the GoWP, Digital Agency Owners Podcast, wherever you get your podcasts.

[00:54:34] Joanne: And as a quick reminder at GoWP, we want to help you become more profitable. Whether it’s listening to our podcast or joining in our weekly happiness hours, viewing informative web webinars, hosted by our friends like Joe Casabona. For example, he has a really great webinar and full site editing in the WordPress community.

[00:54:55] Joanne: And of course, by growing your team with our super skilled developers, [00:55:00] copywriters designers go to GoWP.com to read more about our services and to schedule a discovery call. Thank you so much for listening. We’ll see you next time.

[00:55:10] Morayo: Thank you everyone. Thank you again, Joe. Thanks, Joanne.

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